"Zero ~ Nurera no Miko ~" talk. He talks about horror with Director Shimizu of "Ju-on". Many systems were born from Shibata D's psychic experience!?

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09/03/2023
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Shimizu Takashi

Film director. He belongs to the booster project. Representative works include the "Ju-on" series, and the "Mura" series, which will be released in next year's new work "Ushikubimura" (by Shimizu in the text).

Keisuke Kikuchi

Belongs to Koei Tecmo Games. He is the producer of the "Zero" series (Kikuchi in the text).

Makoto Shibata

Belongs to Koei Tecmo Games. Director of the "Zero" series (Shibata in the text).

What is "Zero ~Nurera no Miko~"?

――Before the discussion, Mr. Shimizu viewed the PV. What is your impression of "Zero ~Nurera no Miko~"?

ShimizuI'm not very familiar with games, but I have the impression that horror games are mainly about "threating", and there are titles that aim to be "thrilling". It makes me happy. I'm also aiming for "scary" rather than "surprise" as much as possible in my work. Also, as is the case with live-action movies, when the direction of action is strengthened, it tends to deviate from the originally intended horror. For example, if you shoot the enemy with a gun or defeat the opponent in a hand-to-hand combat, if you draw a direct attack method, it will deviate from the ghost story-like horror that is unique to Japan and Asia. I think it's the same with games.

Kikuchi Thank you. The "Zero ~zero~" series started with "Zero" released in 2001, and since then Shibata has been creating the worldview and story. The first thing Shibata told me was the idea of using a camera to exorcise spirits. For example, sticking a bill or shooting an exorcism arrow, I thought that if it wasn't a specific attack, it wouldn't feel like exorcism.

ShimizuDon't you want to look away from scary things? Having to hold the camera firmly and face it can be quite scary for those who are not good at fear. Why did Mr. Shibata come up with the system of using a camera to exorcise spirits?

ShibataIn terms of games, it's not much different from shooting a gun. However, I thought that the "shots" that cut out the moment of the spirit would match the fight with ghosts.

ShimizuOh, there is such a thing. When children say they're afraid of ghosts, they cover themselves with futons to suppress their fear. But if it's a ghost, does it matter if it's in a futon? (laughs) Actually, such a childhood delusion is connected to one scene of "Ju-on".

ShibataIt's as Mr. Shimizu said earlier that if you increase the action, it will not be scary. I don't. So, we've adjusted all the actions to be as fast as possible to keep it scary. As a player, I think it feels like the action is a little slow, but the main characters are girls, and I think the atmosphere of the game as a whole is maintained.

――“Zero ~Nuregarasu no Miko~” will be a remastered title.

KikuchiThis remaster not only has beautiful graphics, but there are also additional elements such as costumes and new modes, but first of all, we want many players to experience the "Zero" series. Since we want you to enjoy it, we have remastered it without changing the basic elements of the story and battles.

ShibataWhen I watch it again, I really want to make changes to the story, game system, and direction, but if I do that, I'll want to rework everything, so I'll put up with it. I did (bitter smile).

KikuchiEven though it's a 20th anniversary work, it would have to be released on the 25th anniversary.

ShimizuIf that happens, it will be the 6th work in the series (laughs). It would be nice to have a swimsuit as an additional costume. In the case of a movie, when a girl in a swimsuit appears, it only creates a sense of incongruity, such as "This is just a hobby of the producer or director!" player's freedom.

――(laughs). "Zero ~Nuregarasu no Miko~" is a title that features the terror of water. Why did you focus on that?

KikuchiAs Shibata has been saying since the first work, I think that "humidity" is important in Japanese-style horror.

ShimizuYes, humidity is important. Asian countries such as Japan and South Korea are humid countries, aren't they? There are also Hollywood film directors like Ridley Scott who admire that. Because I was born and raised in such an environment, I think that the atmosphere is ingrained in my DNA.

Kikuchi Indeed. Buildings and places overseas have the impression of being somewhat dry, and I think that Japanese-style horror is a situation that feels somewhat humid, reminiscent of a Japanese house. That's why, from the first generation "Zero ~zero~", we focused on the element of water. However, the technical hurdles were high at the time. From the 2014 release of "Zero ~Nuregarasu no Miko~", I thought that I could finally make it happen, and I was able to take on the challenge.

ShibataWhen it rains, a girl's hair gets wet, and her clothes become transparent, which is a sexy factor, but the more she gets wet, the closer she gets to the world of death. , It is also connected to the horror element. The damage when touching a ghost is also large, but the damage given is also large. The game is also a dangerous element.

ShimizuI see. Various horror spots appeared in the PV, but do you have any motifs?

KikuchiYes, there is. The theme of this work is to collect horror spots from all over Japan in one mountain.

ShimizuThat's a convenient location. I want it in reality.

Kikuchi (laughs). However, if we did that as it was, each spot would have a disjointed impression, so we needed a coordinator. Therefore, one of the roles of water was to create a consistent stage by using water such as rain falling on Mt. Hikami and flowing rivers.

ShibataWhen I returned from overseas a long time ago, I noticed the high humidity in Japan. At the same time, I felt that Japan was connected to the whole world through moisture and humidity, and that I was also connected to the world of death and ghosts. In other words, I thought that if the humidity was higher, it would be possible to create a world setting that is more connected to ghosts, so I came up with a stage setting that is connected by water. There are rivers, there are waterfalls, and what is the source of the water?

Shimizu Sounds good. Water is something you can see with your eyes, you die if you don't drink it, and it already exists in your body, and all plants and animals are connected by water. There is a fear of “getting through” because it is something that cannot be eliminated as long as you live.

What is the horror of Japanese-style horror?

-Films and games are in different fields, but I think they are the same type of entertainment in terms of scaring the audience. What specific points are you conscious of to enhance the horror element?

ShimizuI am atmosphere and signs. First of all, about the atmosphere, there are ruins, schools, hospitals, and various haunted spots. Places that are no longer used and people don't go there, even though no accidents or phenomena have occurred, they become haunted spots with tail fins. If you look at it on a global scale, it's definitely human harm. I think there is a psychology of the surrounding people who make the place a haunted spot, like making it without permission and leaving it alone, and then being afraid of it. I think that something will dwell by having such a story. I take care of that.

ShibataMovies can show a single space carefully, but games can go back and forward by the player's operation, so games are better in terms of showing a single space. It may be easy. The "Zero" series can be scary, but as you play it, you'll get comfortable with it. I feel like it's a nostalgic place.

KikuchiI think that's because Shibata's childhood experiences are reflected in the game (laughs).

ShibataAh, sure (laughs). When I was a child, I used to experience psychic phenomena a lot, but at some point I stopped experiencing them, and when I started making horror games, I started experiencing them again. So you may feel comfortable.

――Then, Japanese-style horror doesn't include a lot of surprises such as zombies suddenly jumping out, but rather a jingling atmosphere that Shimizu says. I think the style is the secret to its popularity. Do you have any tips for directing Japanese-style horror?

ShimizuWell, I always wish I could get the hang of it (bitter smile). Sometimes, there is a magical atmosphere where the atmosphere is different from the intended direction. It's like something dwells in a place beyond consciousness. For example, if the late director Tobe Hooper's "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre" was shot again by the director himself, it would never be that movie again. Even if it's the same situation again, even if we have a different budget and time than back then. I hope that someday I will be able to capture that magical atmosphere, even if only for a moment.

Shibata Of course, there are some surprising points in this work as well. It's more effective to endure as much as possible, but when I play it now, I sometimes regret it, saying, "Ah, I couldn't hold back at this point." At the time, someone must have said, ``I want you to add a surprise here,'' and I implemented it.

ShimizuWell, when I look back on my teenage years, I was surprised and enjoyed the easy-to-understand surprise productions, so I think it was important. Among them, the one that I liked the most was "Zoo...!" rather than "Gyaa!".

Kikuchi When I first started working on the Zero series, I asked Shibata what he feared the most about what people felt. rice field. After feeling something, the thing that suddenly doubles with the use of imagination is the scariest thing. That's what we're incorporating into the game, so even after you've finished playing the game, we've adopted productions that will make you feel scared.

ShimizuBy the way, do you really think that this level is unique to Japanese people? It's a balance that's fairly easy to convey to people in the Asian region, but it's quite difficult for Westerners to understand. When I made the Hollywood remake of The Juon, I fought with the producer almost every day. People say things like, "What's so scary about just standing absent-minded?" There are differences in environment, culture, and religious sensibilities.